Consulting and Upgrades
After the great presentation given by both Netsuite and Intacct, I was asked to give some feedback on the area of SAAS (software as a service) and highlight some of the topics covered in the presenation.
Here’s a brief YouTube video that the IT Alliance took of me during the conference which contains my thoughts:
In November 2006 I had a prospective client (actually it was an existing end user who knew me from a prior job and had called for my advice) seeking options for Service Management for MAS 90. They were already using one package and though it appeared to work they’d been through quite a bit of back and forth with a local Sage Business Partner who sold the Service Management and then had no clue how to make it work.
So they came to us asking if we could “fix it”.
Since we hadn’t worked with this particular software package before (and our rule is that we don’t bill clients for our learning time) – I advised her that I’d take a poll of other resellers of Sage MAS 90 and MAS 200 to see what they were using for Service Management.
Boy did I get an earful.
The question just came up again. Someone asked for some feedback on different service management packages. Since the analysis was written almost three years ago – I have to caution that some responses to it may have changed. Packages could have improved (or gotten worse). Take this information as a general overview of candid responses from experienced Sage consultants who have worked with these products and are providing the feedback to me.
I know each of these consultants personally – however to protect their companies and insure totally candid replies I’ve stripped out the firm name and identifying information.
These experiences are often the result of only one or two implementations. You may find that other consultants who have done dozens of impelementations of Service Management software have a totally different reply. The trouble is that I never can find these consultants. Service Management seems to be an area where consultants sell and run.
Here are my informal survey results. I do not claim they are scientific, authoritative or have any other special insight that you couldn’t get from asking around yourself. Simply take this information as one component of your own due dilligence as you reseach Service Management for MAS 90.
Full Disclaimer:
These results are from 2006 – the products mentioned may have been improved since I took this informal poll
While I know every person who submitted information – I cannot know what their level of competence with the product was. It’s very possible that some of the people who replied and whose opinions are included here were never properly trained and that taints their feedback. For this reason I strongly recommend using this information only as one portion of your own due dilligence when researching Service Management Software.
From: Wayne Schulz
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 4:34 PM
To: [prospect name]
Subject: RE: MAS90
Hi [prospect name],
As discussed today – I have put together some of the comments and feedback about the various Service Management packages for MAS90.
As I thought, none appear to standout. I’m continuing to look for a reseller with more than one or two clients using any one of these.
I think this is a fairly complete list of the Service Management available for MAS 90. I compiled the feedback from various emails that I have received over the last 6 months. These emails are internal communications between resellers as we are looking to find software or solve problems for our users.
The only solution that I have not seen anyone using but have repeatedly heard recommended is Job Ops. This is a more expensive solution from a company called Synergistic. The address is http://www.jobops.com
I hope this information is helpful. It appears to me from the comments below that you’re probably on the most widely used Service Management solution. I will follow-up with some additional information as I continue to query the resellers who work with these products to see if anyone has done more than three (so far what I’m seeing is resellers who’ve done one or two of these types of implementations).
-Wayne
http://www.iigservicemaestro.com/ –
mixed feeback from resellers.
FEEDBACK FROM A CONSULTANT:
Service Maestro from IIG is not that bad, but it isn’t that great either. The product is solid. Support is very slow. It is difficult in an implementation to teach. There is a lot of functionality, and sometimes it gets confusing because there is so much functionality. It is not made for a particular industry, so lots of terminology is very generic and vague.
I like Wayne’s idea. Tell them that you will charge them for time and disclaim at the onset.
I have also heard great things about JobOps, but cannot get a client to take the large dollar investment. Probably worth it in the long run.
FEEBACK FROM A CONSULTANT:
IIG doesn’t return phone call’s or e-mails inquiries for Service Maestro. I now believe that if you can’t basic sales questions answered, then watch out once they get the client’s money.
http://www.ascent-sys.com/ – wmixed feedback (see below)
FEEDBACK FROM A CONSULTANT:
We have several clients in the service management industry. Three are on Automated Service from Ascent, and three are on Service Maestro from IIG.
First the really bad: I spent 3 days last summer in Houston with their top (only) trainer. It was a painful three days to say the least. Obviously training, plane tickets, hotel, partner fee, and lost billable time were very expensive. By the end of the second day, I was on the web getting my airline reservations changed to that night. It was only the second day, and it was clear that this was an absolutely terrible program. Based on
what I heard, they really have it installed at one big company that is satisfied. I know that none of my clients are satisfied. There is absolutely no dispatching functionality. They have three “dispatch” functions, but they are all just terrible. Also, no job cost functionality.
We also choose this path because we also do Peachtree and BusinessVision. I was very excited about the prospect of learning only one service management solution for the three products that we carry. These were also jokes. The software just doesn’t work. One of the students in our class had the BV version for 6 months and still no go live. He spent the entire three days with the head programmer working on bugs.
FEEDBACK FROM AN END USER:
Yes, my current maintenance/support for MAS90 is through Ascent, since I also have Automated Servic (Ascent) support, this way all our issues are handled through one company. They have a very slow response time, although once they get involved, they are proficient at resolving issues.
They are located in Texas, so there isn’t any local support, they handle everything through PC Connect or VNC. If you would like, you can call me with any questions.
FEEDBACK FROM A CONSULTANT:
Ascent Business Systems has a very robust and well-integrated Field Service MAS 90 Add-on. Tell Shelley Roth I sent you. She’s been great to work with and is extremely helpful. Here’s her contact information if you want to talk with her, the package is called Automated Service.
Shelley Roth
Director of Channel Development
Ascent Business Systems, Inc.
1880 S. Dairy Ashford Suite 535
Houston, TX 77077
281-497-8882 x209
800-256-6853
sroth@ascent-sys.com
FEEDBACK FROM A CONSULTANT:
We have a couple of clients on Automated Service. The product is good for Field Service and not so good for Depot or In-House service. Ascent is just about the only player that is still standing. Their service is ????, their customer centric focus is ???? and their willingness to listen to resellers is ?????
IIG I would not touch, Cognitive is not even a player sooooooo your choices are limited.
Watch out when applying updates and third party stuff. Acent will try to burn you. One of our clients they wanted 3-4K to integrate Paperless Office. The client told them to buzz off and they finally did it for $00.00.
FEEDBACK FROM A CONSULTANT:
Either of you ever deal with Ascent Systems (Automated Service)? The are the least service oriented group I have ever dealt with and I swear if they go home and have a nightmare about us, they come in the next morning and hit my charge card, nickle/dime!
FEEDBACK FROM A CONSULTANT:
We just sold one 2 months ago – they make you pre-pay and then they never tell you how much you used. Also they won’t go direct to the client for services – very annoying – so I prepay but if the client doesn’t use the hours I am stuck.
FEEDBACK FROM CONSULTANT:
We have done a few Automated Service installs at a couple of larger customers and found out the hard way that the Automated Service files are not standard MAS 90 structure and you can’t use VI to import to them all the time (some you can, some you can’t). We had to pay Ascent to do some custom data conversion and custom import utilities for ongoing integration. Every time we speak to Ascent it is more money, to the point that I should just send them my charge card and let them use it when appropriate. Service is a bit spotty
(slow or non-responsive). Product is as good as any 3rd party apps tend to be.
FEEDBACK FROM CONSULTANT:
I have one client and authorized by Ascent. The upgrade to 4.05 is not too difficult and Ascent has the patches/bugs worked out. The hardest is getting the GL to convert to 4.x. Support is available from Ascent – The client will need the current patches for Automated Service. This cannot be stressed enough. When I did an early conversion, AS wasn’t that mature with 4.05 and hard to work with Ascent to address issues. It has been very stable the last nine months. 4.10 will be released soon, but we’re not encouraging that yet.
Procedure is:
Prepare 3.71 data just like any conversion.
Install 4.05 MAS 90
Install 4.05 MAS 90 patches
Install AS 4.05
Install AS 4.05 patches
Convert company data.
http://www.bcs-tx.com/product/swm/index.html – I
am not positive these guys are the originators of this software. I also have no feedback at all on this.
http://www.conativesystems.com/
A few have looked at this and found support lacking
FEEDBACK FROM CONSULTANT:
I looked at Conative in late 2002 also. [xxx]the owner did the presentation. It looked to be solid. However, during the on line demo, [xxx]kept going down side alleys showing us how some things could/would be handled which became distracting. The other presentation was done by Automated Services. The presenter that day was a novice and didn’t know much about the software. I decided to pursue Conative, but soon realized that it was a one man shop and getting simple timely quote was impossible. I gave up after two months.
FEEBACK FROM CONSULTANT:
Unfortunately I haven’t any recent experience with service software, but attempted to work with http://www.conativesystems.com/ a couple years ago. Owner is a talented, but I think it was too much for him to sell MAS 90/200, service his clients AND market an enhancement. I recall that most of the SM2000 implementations were customer specific, making it difficult to support and learn (since there was little consistency). While very robust, the product also didn’t “feel” like MAS 90 (screen design was different, function key assignments were different, etc). Having also reviewed Automated Service a couple years ago, I was less than impressed with their sales pitch (pick us because the other guys suck).
http://www.aboutpm2000.com/Product/SWO.htm
Service Work Order – does not appear to be widely used – no feedback found
My recommendation to you is to do your own research in this area and insist on talking to users who have been using Service Management software for over 1 year in exactly the same way that you anticipate using it.
Avoid using a consultant who only has one or two implementations of the software. My own personal belief is that you cannot make any money as a consultant doing “onesies and twosies” of a product. If there is a source to many troubled engagements that I’ve seen it si that the consultant who sold the specialized product did not have the necessary skills to actually implement it. Usually you’ll get a hint of this if the consultant promises to hold implement the specialized package in “phase two”.
Also keep in mind that the above comments are unfiltered feedback from consultants and end users who I know and trust. This is not research that I’ve done myself – rather I’m compiling various emails that people had sent to me in the year 2006. Because this feedback is almost three years old the various packages may have improved. So use this information to compliment your own good research – and not as a replacement.
Ascent Systems has this to say in a certified letter sent to me dated May 1, 2009 (read the entire letter here) which they say points out what they claim is inaccuracy in several of the responses to the informal survey we took :
We do understand that every company has some less than favorable press out there and we can handle that, but we would like for the information that is blatantly incorrect to be removed from your post. We specifically request that posting number one, Feedback from a Consultant, be removed in its’ entirety. This post contains serious inaccuracies such as Ascent having installed AutomatedService in only one big company that is satisfied, no job cost functionality and the information regarding Peachtree and BusinessVision. We also request that the inaccuracies in posting number four: Feedback from a Consultant be removed. The quote that states “They wanted 3-4k to integrate Paperless Office” appears to be blatantly incorrect. We have no record of every quoting any customer that amount to integrate Paperless Office. If you believe that statement is important enough to leave in your post, we would appreciate the name/company of the Consultant so that we may verify the accuracy. We would be comfortable with only removing the inaccduracy in posting number four, but due to the many inaccuracies in posting number one, we feel the only recorse is to remove the post in its entirely.
To further enlighten you as to the success that both partners and end-users have with AutomatedService, I have included the Success Story that Sage presented during a quarterly Sage Channel Partner webinar regarding the joint BIG win we had. Ascent was able to sell Sage Softwasre along with Automated Service to Ranger America beating out the incumbent, Great Plains. I have also included a success story to give you a broader picture.
Update 5-20-2009 – FEEDBACK FROM A CONSULTANT – ASCENT BUSINESS SYSTEMS:
DSD Business Systems has two recent implementations of the Ascent Automated Service software. Overall, both of our end-users are happy with the product. The most challenging of our end-users is a mechanical pump distributor who also performs maintenance work on their products. They were previously using Conative’s SM200 product, which is a complete disaster. Since switching over to AutomatedService (AS), they have been happy. This end-user says that support response times are sometimes spotty and if the question is very complex it can take Ascent a while to get back to them. But, they always do get back, which has not been our experience with other Service Management products on the market. Overall, they say that Ascent’s AS product works for them and they are very satisfied with it.
As far as reseller support is concerned, DSD’s VP of Sales, Pete Morone, has been extremely happy with Ascent. He says that Chris Fix, their VP of Sales, has been accessible and willing to work with us. Jim Woodhead, our VP of Professional Services – MAS says, “Chris is very knowledgeable about the Ascent package and can be counted on to deliver on his promises and to resolve problems. I have no hesitation to recommend Ascent to a customer that needs a strong service management product.”
I read some of the older Consultant Feedback for AutomatedService, and I know from firsthand experience that some of the criticism levelled by other resellers is no longer true in 2009. While that criticism may have been valid 2-3 years ago, much of Ascent’s business model, staff, and software features have evolved greatly since then. At one point, 8-10 years ago, DSD had decided not to continue using Automated Service as a supplier because of their predatory policies regarding their relationship with our end-users. That is no longer a concern for us, because the Ascent staffers who executed those policies are long gone. DSD has nothing but the highest regard for Ascent’s current products and delivery model.
Doug Deane
President, DSD Business Systems
The IT Alliance (ITA) has invited Wayne Schulz to speak and lead a workshop session April 28 at their 2009 conference being held in Atlanta Georgia.
The IT Alliance is a group of Value-Added Resellers (VARs), CPAs, Specialty Technology Consultants, Chief Information/Technology Officers, and Developers/Providers of Technology Products and Services (Vendors)
ITA is the only national organization where these constituencies come together as equals. Their members believe success comes through the sharing of the knowledge and experiences our different disciplines bring to the profession. They do this by active networking, this website www.italliance.com, surveys, newsletters, and biannual retreats. ITA is a place where independent thinking and alternative points of view are openly promoted and respected.
Hardware, Network Services, Security, Project Management, Business Management (CIO and Consulting), Systems Design and Implementation, Skills Education, and Certification.
Wayne’s session “To blog or not to blog” will cover the ways that organizations can use easy and inexpensive tools to publish content on their website that is helpful to site visitors.
IT Alliance Atlanta 2009 Agenda:
Link: ITAlliance
Additional Info: Corporate Blogs: It’s The PageRank, Stupid
Mark Chinsky of Clients First has a good article up that points out the time to buy any ERP (accounting software) is now.
That is, of course, assuming you actually need some.
Among the points Mark makes:
via: Clients First
One of the most frequent questions we receive is regarding training for Sage MAS 90 and MAS 200. Often our clients hire new employees or would like a quick refresher course on the basics of MAS 90 and MAS 200.
As a general rule of thumb our recommendations on education are as follows:
If you are a brand NEW user to MAS 90 or MAS 200 with no experience – consider a class.
If you are tackling a new module that you have not used before (manufacturing, Visual Integrator) – consider training (we recommend attempting some self study first).
If you are an experienced user and you simply have a few questions – we think it’s best for you to compile a list of what you are having issues with and discuss those with your Sage Business Partner. This is because training classes are typically very broad and cover the topic in depth from start to finish – when you may already be familiar with a large portion of what is covered in class.
Here’s a training schedule for Kissinger Associates in Pennsylvania. They’ve been working with Sage MAS 90 and MAS 200 since I’ve been using the program and are also long time operators of a high quality authorized Sage training facility.
Most classes are full day – unless noted otherwise.
A benefit of attending these Sage Authorized classes is you receive:
After you’ve reviewed the MAS 90 and MAS 200 training schedules below you can review the course content on this page which shows the costs, content outline as well as CPE credits offered.
The official Kissinger Associates MAS90 Training site can be accessed online for further information.
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